An American Catholic Community in Albuquerque, New Mexico
Holy Spirit Cathedral
--- On Mon, 1/16/12, (redacted)@aol.com < (redacted)@aol.com> wrote:
Subject: The Mass?
Date: Monday, January 16, 2012, 12:48 PM
You claim Holy Spirit Cathedral is part of the Roman Catholic Church, why then aren't you listed in the Santa Fe Archdiocesan Directory? Is your ordination recognized by the Holy Sees? If not then your Sacraments are invalid and the consecration of Bread and Wine during the Mass still remains as Bread and Wine! That’s deceiving the People of God!
Santa Fe, NM
I do not, or have I said that we are part of the Roman Catholic Church. WE ARE NOT. Nor is my ordination recognized by the Holy See.
But I do have a valid line of Apostolic Succession, which does validate our sacraments. Now our sacraments can be called Illicit (i licit) which means that the Roman Church dose not have recognize our sacraments. Which is fine, but it does not takeaway from their validity.
Now we are not enemies of the Roman Church, we are their brother servants in Christ, If they don't see as that it's ok. Too many Roman Catholics leave the church and Join christian mega churches and the such, who totally teach against the catholic faith and the importance of the sacraments, our hope is to catch them before they turn away from their catholic faith completely. We do not try to steal Roman Catholics we encourage them to stay faithful and active within their parish. We just don't want to loose any catholic to non-catholic Christians. Remember non-catholic Christians don't recognize nor respect any catholic sacrament including baptism. According to their teaching every sacrament is not valid.
Thanks, for the question.
God Bless You
In His service
Originally posted by -----
So besides the Orthodox, which other non-Catholic groups do we recognize as having valid sacraments? I think it would start with groups with valid priesthood. So which of the other schismatic groups do we still recognize as having valid sacraments?
I'm not trying to encourage people to go to these groups, but I think that this is information that's good to know just in case we're backed into that situation where there is someone who can help us and we don't refuse that help just because we don't know better
Response from -----:
The Charismatic Catholic Church of Canada
The Old Catholics
The Polish National Church
And the Sedes (Yes even them!)
Catholic Reformed Church
These are all considered to have valid Orders therefore valid Sacraments.
Are They Really Catholic? Yes we are!
How can this be?
First and foremost, the answer lies within the fact that the Old Catholic Church did not LEAVE the unified Catholic Church. They were initially separated by the issue of persecution. Therefore there has never been a real issue over the validity of the Old Catholics or their relationship with the Catholic Church.
Secondly, there have been repeated affirmations by the Roman Catholic Church though the Papacy and other governing bodies.
Some of which are listed here.
Historical Affirmations Regarding our Validity by The Vatican
Utrecht receives Rights of Autonomy from Blessed Pope Eugene III in 1145. This Right is confirmed by Pope Leo in 1215 and becomes known universally as the Leonine Privilege. Privilege subsequently reconfirmed in two Church Councils in 1520 and 1717.
Most Recent Affirmations
"The Roman Church recognizes the validity of Old Catholic Orders and Sacraments." 1974, Catholic Almanac, Our Sunday Visitor
A Concordat was signed between the Holy Father, Pope Paul VI, and Archbishop Glazmaker of Utrecht in 1976, recognizing the Catholic status of one another and the validity of one another's Sacraments.
Dominus Iesus issued by the Roman Catholic Magisterium in the year 2000, signed by John Paul II on June 16, and Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger on August 6, states: "The churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the (Roman) Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by Apostolic Succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular churches."
"The Old Catholics, like the Orthodox, possess a valid priesthood." Separated Brethren, William J. Whalen
"...Ordinations performed by the bishops of the Old Catholic Church are considered valid." A Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law, Rev. Stanislaw Woywood, OFM, LLB